My last purchase was a PA3x at the beginning of it's run. It's gone but I still have my Tyros 2, Korg Micro arranger and an MZ2000. The T5 was great w/ lots of new sounds, but still vs the T2, I don't know that it's worth the upgrade ( for me ). The 975 is a great value, but the keys still feel like my old PSR2k. It came down to the Genos and PA4x.

I've always been a "Korg" arranger guy, but today I just was more inspired by the Genos. Except for Korg's great synth sounds, in some groups I liked the Genos a lot better. I like to do a lot of guitar emulations. I always liked Korg's better before. Not any more. The PA4x OS and sounds are a bit different from the PA3x, but I didn't feel that it was enough that I'd change ( if I still had a PA3x ) Korg styles still feel a bit more live sounding, but the Genos has closed that gap and the transitions felt a lot smoother. The Genos has the most realistic sounding "acoustic" instruments I have played outside of some of the VSTi's I have. It's so easy though to plug and play vs setting up VST's. I was always a "synth first" guy who liked to play with the knobs while mashing a sound, but I remarked to the KB guy that today when I saw ( and sampled ) the modern hardware analogs / emulations, I was a bit stuck because I had forgotten about or simply didn't recognize some of the controllers.

The only thing is the price of the Genos. OK if I was working as a OMB, but I transitioned long ago into DJ work and I'm pretty much retired now. For a pleasure instrument where I only use the styles occasionally to jam to, probably more than I need to spend on a board. That said, it's really the first time since the transition from PSR 9k to Tyros that I see a vast difference from one flagship ( T 5 ) to the next and I was surprised that I liked it better than Korg's flagship. They're both great though, and in fairness I know the 3x so well that perhaps it's just the desire to hear something that sounds much different fro m what I once had. Well played Yamaha. I'd probably give them one more spin, but if I DO decide to spend on arranger, the Genos is the favorite to come home with me, even though I can get a refurbed 4x for about half. I will admit... THAT makes it a bit tougher. Of course I may take a ride and try out a Ketron. Loved the last one I tried, but.. it's a whole new OS since I've never owned one before. Having always preferred the PA series, I myself am surprised to say that.

you can prob steal one once the genos 2 appears
as genos 1 prices plummet sharply.rumor has it they are speeding up production to release vs years ago as the older generation home wooden organ players who are a big part of totl Yamaha arranger sales are passing on and they want to capture as many sales as possible in time allotted........makes sense profit wise for the targeted audiences worldwide but rumors are rumors.

Good point. I've seen them out there already for a bit less than what every house is asking. I'm only guessing but I suspect the Korg PA line gets a new release first though. I would also agree that the targeted audience is shrinking to be sure, at least in the US. Too bad. It just felt to me a big jump from the Tyros line, and I played a T5 side by side with it. The technology is such now that if it were simple enough to edit the patterns, perhaps ala an FL studio type software or even on the kb itself, I think it could be a staple for the younger players too. I can absolutely get better sounds on Vst instruments too, but the ability to load and even layer a couple of similar guitar patches to create a fuller sound on a top end arranger so quickly is big for me.

There’s a lot of happy Genos owners out there.

😊

I totally understand why. In truth my thinking going in was that I was likely to go home with a PA4x. I think it's a fabulous machine btw. So was pretty much everything else I played on yesterday, including a couple of the analogs. The Genos just felt and sounded so amazing though. So naturally I did the logical thing. I went home with a new semi weighted controller.

For now Vsts still rule my musical world, but for the first time in quite a few years I got a sense that a hardware board might actually suit me just as well and in some cases better. Genos could absolutely be that board.

I don't believe that rumor at all

Yamaha stayed with bad releases for at least 3 years... they are not going to replace a winning keyboard after one year.. You got some bad info

offcourse not

Expected life span of the Genos, atleast 4 years. Probably 5.
The only one supporting that rumor is Donny, and i have no clue why.

In my vision Genos is a great, if not the best arranger ever build.
Yet, it still fails as a workstation trough all its limitations

Doesn’t seem any good reason to replace the Genos for years to come. Many owners are still trying to learn all it has to offer. And it would be easy to upgrade much of the Genos through software.

Re: Genos fails as a workstation.

Was Genos intended as a workstation or arranger? I’ve never seen it advertised as a workstation?

Yes, in fact it is and has been from the start of the promotions:
Genos

Quote:
Welcome to the new world of Digital Workstations. Genos is the new benchmark in Digital Workstation sound, design and user experience.Whether you are in a recording studio or on stage, Genos will inspire and intensify your musical creation and performance.

Add me to the list of being one of the happy Genos owners.

The playlist feature linking registrations and the ability to open a lead sheet on the iPad is the icing on the cake for the board and it’s simple to do. What’s an added bonus is thru playlist you can link it to open any of the 1 to 10 registrations.

that is why they are rumors...no one knows...but we'll see...
either way I am keeping the BK9

I very much doubt the genos will be replaced any time soon. I DO get that we who play arrangers would seem a dwindling market here in the US, but this thing is still pretty fresh. I'd be a lot less surprised to find the PA4x replaced. It sure seems to be nearing the end of it's run, and a lot of refurbs are showing up in different places.

AS far as the workstation label goes... absolutely meaningless to me. Knowing the history of Yamaha arrangers, I didn't expect advanced voice editing features in the Genos on par with their workstations. That has never been a feature in their arrangers, and frankly for the average player I would think it doesn't need to be. Korgs and even higher end Casio's allow for more edit power for those who want those features on an arranger. As far as other workstation features ? Styles vs step sequencing pre-made or user patterns.. deeper sampling in most workstations.. etc etc. Not important for me personally.

I see the Genos for a substantially better price than we've seen "advertised" out there, and I can afford it. I guess I'll decide if it's worth spending the money for what is essentially a pleasure board and great jamming tool.

I really want to love the PA4x too. It's a superb machine, as was the PSR S975 and T5 when I sampled them. Just not sure I love any of them more than then Genos. I'm already rather happy with the assortment of hardware and virtual instruments I already have. The reason for all this I guess was that I was simply quite surprised at how far Yamaha seems to have progressed from the Tyros 2 I still have to where they are now.

I was also surprised that the PA4x didn't "grab me" so to speak, at least on my initial comparison. Perhaps it's because I'm a different player than I was 10 or 20 years ago, with zero need or desire to play for a living. Or maybe I don't see enough difference between the PA3x and 4x. Really, I think it's likely because as I recall, I did a good deal of editing including EQ and effects as well as other parameters while making custom combis in the PA3x before I was happy with it, whereas the Genos feels more "plug and play". Perhaps as I've aged and struggled at times with a few medical issues, the latter is a pretty good thing.

Donny hears these voices ... in his head

According to this, PSR Arrangers also qualify as workstations???

The term "workstation" means nothing at all. It's just a generic name that everybody uses it for as long as I can remember. They even use it for low end arranger keyboards. It just makes the product sound cool and impressive I guess.

It's no different than people considering themselves keyboardist, pianist, guitarist or whatever. The name by itself doesn't suggest the depth of a feature or skill level at all. It's just one big category for everybody which is fine.

Workstation means you can do all and everything onboard witouth the ue use of external tools... includingvrecording (audio and midi) and sound mastering. A workstation allows you to produce fullfledged productions, from start to finish.

Which means :
Content creation and edditing (midi files/styles/arps).
Yamaha Genos does not offer enough here

Sound creation and edditing (nearly non excistant on Yamaha arrangers)

Recording.. this part is available on yamaha arrangers.. but there is no good fine tuning edditingvand mastering available..


Korg pa4x offers much more in this then the Genos, but does not pretend to be a workstation.. workstation means a lot... but yamaha is falsely using it as a marketing thing

That's what I was trying to say. Even an entry level arranger can be called a "workstation" without meeting those requirements. Just a simple midi sequencer is enough to qualify a device as workstation.

Workstation is a very loose term when used with arranger keyboards.

Korg calls the Pa500 a professional Arranger workstation as well.

Not according to the definition used by most pro musicians.. A workstation is a complete production platform, for producing content and final productions..

Just ask outside of the arranger world and anyone you will ask will disqualify both Korg and Yamaha for calling these arrangers workstations.

According to my definition, the only thing in Arranger country that comes close is the Korg PA4x, and even there quite a lot of things are missing.


Its both Korg and Yamaha and others abusing the term Workstation, and thats what i have been blaming mostly Yamaha for, for quite some time.

The Genos disquallifies as a workstation, so it should either get the missing features, or not be named a workstation.

That shouldn't be to hard? should it?

And if you want to know who made that definition of a workstation, well that was Yamaha and espescially Roland.

The "label" is of zero importance to me. I guess it's sort of a loosely applied term that could help point me in a certain direction when choosing new gear. Pretty much once I'm in the music store, I've already done research that points me in the direction of the right gear to check out. A visual glance at an actual board that I may not have researched, along with noting which boards sit next to it, often tells me enough to help me determine if it might fit into my plans.

Beyond that, I couldn't care less. IF I were still playing with others in a band, having a "workstation" vs any other type of instrument is not going to change how I play or make a difference in my ability. So I simply don't care about it. They can call the Genos ( or insert your choice ) a workstation, synth, arranger, strange alien instrument from another planet... etc etc. I simply don't care

As soon as the new models are released all thoughts will change,
and the vicious cycle continues over & over.

I'm probably not making a move until I see what Roland does next..hoping for return to single larger screen layout (motl or totl)..

Yep! Which is why I said the term Workstation means absolutely nothing in the arranger world. In this case, it doesn't matter what anyone outside the arranger community thinks. That professional community doesn't get to correct marketing gimmicks. That's how things go these days. Luckily we can have our own set of requirements to purchase the gears we like.

I love my Genos.....and so is my audiences...

My 2 cents

Manuel